Temujin has contributed to 126 posts out of 1071 total posts
(11.76%) in 3,108 days (0.04 posts per day).
20 Most recent posts:
Quote: I actually agree with being a middle rank player. I played with both vets and noobs, met a lot of great people. I suspect you get just as nostalgic about the past as I do when we remember the past games. And Mongols are still way overpowered - so my skill looked better than it actually is. 1. Team setup strategy
Perhaps your definition of feeding is different from my definition. I was fed in the sense that I got horses and wine from my teammates (who by the way were in the same alliance - no landsharing), and after my run they got weapons, iron, wood, tools, whatever they needed. So they were paid back. And I was not banned. It's not my fault Mongols are so strong. I actually advocate to weaken them.
--- Original message by aceshigh on Aug 24, 2017 05:40 PM
Usually I'm the Mongol, and I have a few Incas supporting me, with 100 cat and 200+ thief rls. The Incas will set a few pages up, one of them being the attacking page that they can f5 (refresh page) with. So they can cat population very quickly, within seconds.
In order for the camper to move they need more pop, and that means disbanding army. Keep a watch on the scores page. As soon as you see the score fall, cat again. And keep out of range of course. The Incas must keep close watch for any score falling, so they can cat the population quickly.
Now that the camper(s) are paralyzed, I am able to run with little fear of the camper doing an attack on me. This has to be done quickly, so that you can get a landmass and army big enough to start pounding the campers. The Incas can now possibly break the campers and homeless them, once the other team members or mongol is finished. They can be homelessed within seconds, using the same f5 strategy. Use thieves for the first 6 hits, then cat and thief every 6 turns.
I have used this strategy before to beat Temujin up a few times, forcing him and his friends to coward out and quit the game. One word: karma.
Anybody that has spent 3 minutes in this game knows straight up that using incas to cat, and then taking their land to attack higher up, is landsharing.
30 seconds is all that is required to know that I, as you have claimed, would never waste my time disbanding army because I had less population when having no hopers catting me, leaving me defenseless. The whole thing is absurd.
Anybody that you could get to cat my pop, would have effected me nil.
Your overpowered Mongol, versus my Jap? How did that end up again? 2800 rls to 1200? Record rls, record land?
Could have quit 5 days into the round and still won. Just like I did when I stopped playing when with a week left when it was me solo versus fallen angels.
The stupid thing is, you actually believe you impacted anything.
If you wish to prove something, come play a round. Forums aren't the place for winning. You can't. Best chance to beat your best ranking of 33, is to play a round, when there aren't 33 players.
Mapat is dominating at the moment, so the reality is, if you are somebody that has played 100 turns over 10 years, and can't win against somebody like him, then you have no business trying to dictate what happens with the game.
Come play. Beat Mapat, then claim how to improve the game. The best that is playing at the moment. Unless Glo plays, who beats all but 2. And neither are playing.
rotflmfao Do you have a diary that you read back to yourself of all your attacks?
It is easy to attack somebody in the game. Unless you do damage though, probably best to keep it to yourself.
I remember you were a dick. I remember you were always fed. I remember you were insignificant and a non threat.
You were a middle rank player at best, when fed, and only noticed because you ***** and moan constantly.
Here is the current state of request. Possibly doesn't mean too much to anybody without question, but bring it on.....
OK. To try and summarise where we are at and where we need to go moving forward.
The PMSTATS page is a very good place to stick to for now.
Essentially, the major issues firstly, are creating a dynamic market with 1 batch of each type of goods for each player.
So then on the market page, will essentially look very similar to what the PMSTATS already is.
Instead of having 2,000 batches of food, every batch will add to the total of that good you have.
On the PM page, you have the option of withdrawing, so will need an input box and an option to withdraw or buy.
All goods will need to have their own local price. Swords etc. Whatever resource whether it is available on local, needs to have that base price. At the moment, I have simply added up the resources required and totalled the cost to get that base price. Wine I have started at 100.
Need a new variable that will be average land. This will total the land in game, and average it out of all players out of protection. Total land is already able to be called, just a matter of counting players out of protection, working out average land.
Then as well as working out local prices for each player, it will have a game local prices. pmBasePrice, will then simply be (local buy + local sell)/2.
Then using the players, we have another variable, called fortAverage. Total fort rls, divided by players.
We also have ratios for each good, based on base local prices, as all calcs are essentially based off food.
Food 1 Iron 4.010025063 Wood 2.005012531 Tools 8.020050125 Swords 100.2506266 Bows 50.12531328 Horses 100 Pikes 48.12030075 Maces 36.09022556 XBows 46.11528822 Wine 5.012531328
19.95 19.95 PMBASE 80 80 40 40 160 160 2000 2000 1000 1000 1995 1995 960 960 720 720 920 920 100 100
Hasn’t transferred well, but that first part, shows iron ratio is 4.01, or 80/19.95. Wood 40/19.95 or 2.01, etc etc. All base prices are shown in the second part, and easy to match up.
Once we have all that:
We then have a food base, which is popFood + armyFood
popFood=totalLand*turns(1500 for test, etc)*1.3*.02
Then we have calcs for each of the goods:
ironBaseGoods=popFood/ironRatio(which was 4.01)
From there, we need to compare all baseGoods with what is on the PM, and create a price based on the ratio, and the PMBasePrice:
Firstly, define a divisor. At the moment I have it set at 4. This is to work out the ratio, to manipulate the price.
divisor = 4
foodPriceDivisor = if((totalPmFood/foodBaseGoods)>1 THEN (totalPmFood/foodBaseGoods)/divisor+1 ELSE
foodPmPrice = if((totalPmFood/foodBaseGoods)>1 THEN
Obviously these two calcs could be put into one longer formula.
Once you do that last step for all goods, then we have a PM price for all goods on the PM based on supply and demand.
I feel all those variables will be needed, and any tweaking can simply be done on the values assigned.
Lol yeah i forget to log in most of the time. Not that there are any rules left to monitor anyway.
I will get back onto charles soon and see if we can get this pm idea finalised. Might be enough to get a few back to at least have a look. Would help if there were some smarties left to bounce the idea off to make sure it is as close to right as possible before putting it in. Very simplified at the moment but think it would be a very radical improvement that makes the pm work as it should and remove the need for constant pm monitoring, take out feeding goods and keep gold circulating everywhere whilst still enabling market domination somewhat. Life has kind of gotten in the way but will see if we can get it happening in the next couple of rounds. Will let you know..
Dont think anybody is attacking him for his opinion. Think more so because he was a massive dick for most of his time here.
Bit of banter and he has dished out plenty.
Please dont bring the postmodernist oppressor vs oppressed rubbish here.
As for his wishlist i am not sure he has said anything that isnt well known or rubbish.
Did you post to give ideas or just to be social justice warrior sticking up for the oppressed?
The pm is very close to being formulated for drastic change. That has long been on my list of things to do but nobody really wishes to discuss it. As such it is left up to me who wants it and has nearly come up with a solution and charles who is the only one that could code it. Motivation to implement such a change would need to increase.
Gold or iron could be as simple as changing from all mountains to some plains land and mountains. But then with enough players it isnt an issue. No jump explorers and people prepared to hit explorers means less false land bought into the game.
The reality is it is a text based game. It is a niche market and will be hard to learn. There are enough people that were interested to have a very big player base.
The main problem has been admins listening to whinging players and changing the game to benefit a select few. People complaining about the game and the admins running the most passionate players away leaving the landsharing freelanders that make the game not worth playing. It turned into a mage game because of people like nwa who did nothing nore than get fed goods and land by other players.
Admin suggestion i have said for a decade. Should be a glorified lounge mod. As soon as jack took over i coded out the need for rules and took out the camping advantage.
There is no rules in blitz to do with gameplay. Just multis hacking and abuse essentially.
Have to get my code back in as i think they commented it out because the players complained again of course.
The guy had some pretty big personal issues. Wouldn't take anything he says to heart, or even take notice to be honest, the black cape and black nail polish doesn't really scream sanity....
Spend 11 years on something and still don't really know how it works, then you know something is wrong.
The parking army thing, is a little tricky. The land taken code change, will do a little bit of that, as it is harder to get land off a defended empire, and easier off an undefended one. So parking army, will give less land, although, would just mean an extra hit or so to counter it.
The PM though, with a bonus to alliances, would help a little.
Comes down to code as much as possible, have as few rules as possible. Landfeeders, landsharers, feeders, have had my complete hatred from a playing point of view since the beginning. But that won't overpower my belief that rules shouldn't be needed to restrict gameplay, as even if it goes against the spirit of the idea of the game, it doesn't take away from the need to push the boundaries of efficiency of the best way to play that the code allows.
On reflection, I believe there was something else to tackle the army park, and if there wasn't, something just popped into my head.
Don't like saying stupid things, so let me reflect on this thought for a little while before making it public and open for discussion, to make sure it is a real idea, even if this forum is just an intimate dinner for 2 as it appears... :)
Edited by Temujin on Feb 5, 2017 at 12:51 AM
Standard and Blitz are 2 different games, 2 different servers.
It has always been my stance, that the biggest issues with the games, are admins, with rules. I have always believed an admins role should be to answer questions, and effectively be a glorified lounge mod.
My personal stance, is that feeding, landsharing, are huge blights on the game. However, once you bring in an admin to remove that from happening, by opinion, is just opening up a big can of worms.
I believe any game play issues, need to be coded out. Whether that happens efficiently or not, is not as big an issue as admins going rogue on players for playing in a way that is disliked.
Outside of that, it is the landsharers, freelanders, and feeders, that ran everybody away all those years ago, and the only ones to remain playing.
Also, def rls are your friend.
That being said, the first thing I wished to do when becoming admin for blitz, was removing the silly rules, at least most of the gameplay ones.
The rest of the issues, can be worked out through discussion. There is already code ready to be put back into the game that will help with a lot of issues.
There is code being looked at to revamp the public market system.
Best way to change the game and the way people play, is to bring up coding changes to combat landfeeding, army parking and such.
As for suggestions of rules, and breaking them, the forums are not the place. Claims of cheating, are really not looked upon in a positive light, especially when there is no rules.
Here are the Blitz rules:
In order to preserve fair competition, each player is limited to one (1) account in each of our three league games, allowing for a total of three accounts in all of 1000AD. If the Game Admins detect more than one account being played from the same location, they will message you and ask you to delete all but one of your accounts.
If you play from the same location as another player (ie, family member, roommate, or if you play from a library or cyber cafe) you must message the Game Admins at the start of every round, making sure to include the empires that will be playing from the same location, their empire numbers, and the reason you are all playing from the location. Game Admins refer to these situations as "Shared IPs".
Because "Shared IP" situations are very precarious, such players are prohibited from attacking each other, trading with each other, and aiding each other.
Other things you MUST NOT do include:
You shall bear responsibility of everything that happens in your account. Any questionable actions will be charged towards the account owner.
Note: Most of these rules do not apply to test game.
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Technical and human error will likely occur at some point in your game if you choose to stay and play consistently. Naturally, such errors may set back your empire. Efforts will be made to ensure that such occurences are relatively innocuous and that players are not unduly penalized. However, beyond that, specific requests for any sort of reimbursement will be ignored.
As you can see, landsharing is not a rule. Look at rule 8 though.
Nah. It means nobody of note. Means I am bloody good.
Actually, means if somebody gets offended the forum may get some life.
If it takes a mine is bigger than yours to get people posting that is a start.
Did your maces get through?
Aid after 01/16/2017
Type From To Date/Time Goods Sender IP Receiver IP
Sent 7 24 01/22/2017 04:59 AM 76,000,000 maces,
Sent 7 24 01/18/2017 04:21 AM 71,250,000 tools, 142,500,000 bows,
Aid after 01/16/2017
Type From To Date/Time Goods Sender IP Receiver IP
Received 7 24 01/22/2017 04:59 AM 76,000,000 maces,
Received 7 24 01/18/2017 04:21 AM 71,250,000 tools, 142,500,000 bows,
IP addresses deleted. Interestingly, for all of these, was only sender IP listed, no receiver, however none listed for both, so if maces sent, this is a non issue. I answer, as this thread is 5 years old, and whilst i have no clue what goes on around me, I am probably your only hope... :)
Looks a pretty easy win solo in that crowd. I might get keen for a round soon. Burning some turns in test, getting a feel again. Don't have much time, but wouldn't need it against that lot.
Maybe next round might do something together?
Land Food 1
4,000.00 13 20
160,000.00 12.38095238 21
320,000.00 11.79138322 22.05
640,000.00 11.22988878 23.1525
1,280,000.00 10.69513217 24.310125
2,560,000.00 10.18584016 25.52563125
5,120,000.00 9.700800156 26.80191281
10,240,000.00 9.238857292 28.14200845
20,480,000.00 8.798911706 29.54910888
40,960,000.00 8.379915911 31.02656432
81,920,000.00 7.980872296 32.57789254
163,840,000.00 7.600830758 34.20678716
Standard food prices on local market.
10 players out of pro.
303,447,559 total land in game.
92 fort rls
My calcs have base price for PM at 19.17.
From there, my calcs show 49,862,502,895 food total on PM for average price.
If there is more, the PM price will be lower. Less, will be higher.
Say 100 billion food, PM price would be 15.97.
200 billion food, PM price would be 13.68.
This is with a very conservative base of 10.
Change that to 5
100 billion 13.68
200 billion 10.64
Right now my calcs are based on the ratio against food. Not going through the full calcs. Assuming the figures quoted, are to be as balanced as possible. Not trying to reinvent the wheel here, just looking at a different way of PM.
eg Iron 5.5 more expensive than food, so would be taken into account.
Got local market prices, based on the same formulas, for all weapons, and horses, based on their costs to make.
Wine, needs to be worked out, but have it starting at cost 100 for the test game.
Have the formulas in place where weapons/wine/horses take into account having army up about 25% of the time.
Could easily add in all resources straight into the local market.
Would be looking at a commission style sales process, where all goods are considered equal. eg if you have food on 1% of food on PM, and 1 billion food is bought, your sales would be 1% of that, regardless of batch size, or when you put it on.
But then, I don't code, so not sure how easy that would be to implement.
The rest of it, is simple formulas, based on information readily available in the code anyway, just a matter of tweaking the numbers.
Not sure making everything available all resources on local market, but can easily use the formulas to work out the PM price. Would like to see wine on the local market though.
Obviously without the formulas, hard for anybody to give an opinion. But trying to twist Charles's arm to spend some time on it, and see what the drawbacks are.
PM used as warehouses not really the way things should go. And yes supply/demand is somewhat at play, but how many times are you trying to sell something, and go to war with one other player, bring your food all the way in from 30, 28, 26, 24, 22, 20, 18, 16, then it sells, and prices go straight back to 30, due simply to when somebody ran.
Market manipulation can still happen, as the bigger players flooding the market, will dictate the price everybody sells at. They can afford a lower price. Timing of runs is not important, as your goods sell, as quickly as anybody elses.
Barbs can run off local market, and don't need to fluff around parking thief armies, and hoping all their wine sells 1 hour before they run.
I like it. Think it is pretty simple to set up. Just a matter of working out the right numbers.
And since nobody else really likes to talk any more, probably down to the opinion of Charles who would be doing the leg work for me.
Quote: Something along these lines.
Quote: Temuijn, I like your idea.
Sales on first come, first serve principle with exception of alliance trading. You can therfor help alliance with buying from them.
Demand based on the amount of land present in game?
example 1M land in game means expected demand for food to be 1M food a day, 10M land in game means expected demand for food to be 10M food. It is a rough indicator, but it is difficult to manipulate and better then what we have?
Supply as you said, simply what is on the market.
This solution would also make it harder to "store" goods on the market at a high price.
I like it.
--- Original message by radikaal on Sep 25, 2010 06:55 PM
Yeah pretty much something like that. I think the formula would have to be a little more detailed, but yeah, based on the land in the game, if possible, only the land out of protection, and even then maybe just when say 5 people are actually out.
The problem would be the formula. Would food be based purely on land, or on rls also? I mean more fort rls, means more required food right? Ideally, I think you would have to have something like.
populationFood = land * 1.3 * .02 * 800 (based on turns?)
armyFood = totalLand * .25 * fortRls * 800 / 12 / numberPlayers * .45
This is obviously not well thought out, and I haven't done figures to see different scenarios, but this figure here, based on 20 players out, with 100 mil total land would give:
2.08 bil food + 75 bil food.
So the base figure of food required to be average would be 77.08 bil food. So if there was 200 bil food out, it would be cheap (depending on the multiplier of prices) and less than that figure would drive prices up.
I haven't thought too much about formulas obviously, but that is the basic principal, and each good would be worked out the same way. Base prices would have to be come up with, and go from there, but would be a good system if it could be worked out... --- Original message by Temujin on Sep 26, 2010 01:26 PM
PM under pro is not on the agenda.
All about a supply/demand PM, rather than user set prices. Prices determined on a supply/demand basis, through game code.
Not in pro.
I think it would be good for the game.
As a solo player it would suck hard having an alliance fed Chin, not only coming at me full swords/wine, but with the bonus of 9 other players rls as well.
Obviously the issue right now with alliance play is that there really is no point, as you are landlocked which is a massive disadvantage.
I can understand the suggestion, and see the merits, but feel that a supply/demand PM, with alliance bonus price dictating not only that the goods you are buying are from your alliance, but economic benefits to do so.
Yes, a strong alliance should beat a solo player in theory, but as that solo player, would hate to see attack/defense bonus going to that alliance too.
Can we try and get the PM right and economic benefits first and see how that goes before worrying about this?
Any input on this?
Revisiting old ideas to improve the game, and this is high on priority. Have a very solid idea so far what I want to happen, but interested if there are any game nerds left here that can give a numerical opinion.
No Blitz game for Glo Glo?
Problem being, I understand logic statements, not necessarily code. So while I can look at the code and generally understand what is happening through logic, without knowing exactly what ties in with what else, it is hard to find.
As such, can't really find anything to suggest why this is the case, but obviously I don't really know everywhere to look.
All I can really find is this, but assume some of it is redundant.
// town center
session.buildings = structNew();
session.buildings.name = "Town Center";
session.buildings.dbColumn = "townCenter";
session.buildings.land = "P";
session.buildings.workers = 0;
session.buildings.sq = 25;
session.buildings.foodEaten = 0;
session.buildings.costWood = 100;
session.buildings.costIron = 40;
session.buildings.costGold = 2500;
session.buildings.allowOff = false;
session.buildings.maxUnits = 10;
session.buildings.people = 100;
session.buildings.supplies = 1000;
session.buildings.maxExplorers = 6;
session.buildings.foodPerExplorer = 5;
session.buildings.productionName = "";
session.buildings.maxLocalTrades = 100;
The point to this paste is the line: session.buildings.foodPerExplorer = 5;
Hmm. Not sure if any other people are around that could find what is going on.
OK, so I am going to produce a typical Temujin argument here.....
The 10 base food throws out the calculations for exploring at the start, as the 10 food makes up most of the food to explore.
If you compare certain points through an explore phase. Equal land, the food costs for Mongols, then base.
Land MongolFood BaseFood
26400 42 38 110.5%
32000 50 45 111.11%
64000 90 80 112.50%
132800 194 171 113.45%
502400 722 633 114.06%
1000800 1434 1256 114.17%
4500800 6434 5631 114.26%
While it is not an accurate formula saying simply 12.5% more food, it seems to average out pretty good, at least a little closer than your 8.75%.
In saying that though,
Unique Unit: Horse Archer
Fort: -3 land used, +3 more army
Weaponsmith: +1 sword and bow produced for the same cost in iron and wood
Tool Maker: +1 tool produced for the same cost in iron and wood
Tool Maker: +2 more builders
Hunters: +1 food prodcution
20% faster population increase
Town Center: -1 explorer
Mage Tower: +150 gold to produce 1 research point
Farms: -2 food production
5% more food used for exploring
The Temujin argument spin: The documents actually say 5% more food... :)
800/700 is 114.29%, so that is the argument that should be used, as the only thing that throws that off, is the 10 food to start.
So the docs should say something like "To explore extra land costs extra 14.29% food."
If we take off the base 4000 land, and 10 food, those figures become:
Land MongolFood BaseFood
22400 32 28 114.2857142859142857142857142857etcetc%
28000 40 35 114.2857142859142857142857142857etcetc%
60000 80 70 114.2857142859142857142857142857etcetc%
128800 184 161 114.2857142859142857142857142857etcetc%
498400 712 623 114.2857142859142857142857142857etcetc%
996800 1424 1246 114.2857142859142857142857142857etcetc%
4496800 6424 5621 114.2857142859142857142857142857etcetc%
Unless I mentioned 12.5%, you got it from 700/800 right? But the actual figure should be 800/700, as the 700 for the Mongol is a negative point for it. 800 is the base figure, so should be used first in calculations.
Therefore, as suggested, Mongols use 114.2857% more food for extra explore costs.
So while you are correct in pointing out that they don't use 12.5% more food, I am not sure who suggested they did? Not sure where your 8.75% comes from either? Unless I am missing something?
Am I wrong in assuming that to compare food costs for exploring, when food costs are based on land, to compare both civs on equal land?
And if the game docs were right, I wouldn't have wasted my time making a manual. :)
These are obviously based on formulas which I believe to be correct.
There is certainly an issue with Mongols needing 11 as a base, I will try to find where this is stated in the code.
But my point about rounding up, was with a Viking, +1 land over 4000 will cost the next figure in food, all the way up to 800.
With a Mongol, the first turn is 11, but afaik, that goes all the way up to 4700, what does it do after that? Without playing turns I can't be sure. Does it then go to 12? If Viking food is rounded up after 4000, why is Mongols not?
So basically, as far as I can tell (for now without playing some turns, never really looked into exploring in detail), the only time where the +1 food for Mongols comes in, is on the very first turn.
If you can prove that wrong, I welcome you to show me, as then I don't have to be the one putting the time in to do it, as it is a very loose argument. :)
All my formulas are based on either actual formulas, or game stats. All I can think about this is that the base 4000 land 10 food, is based potentially on a 200% value. 800 land *5 gives you 4000, but it costs double that 5.
Mongols, 4000 is 5.7 lots of 700, doubled giving you base of 11.4, or your 11 food?
Will need to go to the code to find out what is going on here, but from everything I have seen and read, the formula should be right.
Edited by Temujin on Feb 19, 2011 at 11:37 PM
Edited by Temujin on Feb 19, 2011 at 11:42 PM